Sunday, May 20
Hypocrisy!
Here is my secret: I am a hypocrite.
Things have been bad in Academic Ella land, to the extent that I almost dropped out this semester. And I mean seriously. But I didn't, and the end result is that the stress of my particular situation caused me to lose 15 pounds in a month (and I'm not a large person to begin with, by any standard), stop menstruating, and develop an ovarian cyst that may require surgical removal of my ovary in my reproductive prime.
That's just great.
But yet, here I am, still.
So whilst suffering through the turmoil of this semester, I had to seek counsel from another faculty member. I really didn't want to, because I hate to come across as gossipy, but things were Bad, with a capital B. (I saw aforementioned faculty member a few weeks after our initial meeting and he asked me if things were going better. I replied, 'Do I look like things are going better?!' He said, 'Well, you don't look like you're packing, so that's better.' The scary thing is that he was only half kidding, I think.)
Packing aside, obviously one of his major suggestions to me was to find a new advisor. Which isn't as easy as it sounds, for reasons that I'm sure I don't have to explain to people here, but that other people outside of Academic Ella land (including my husband, to a certain extent) just don't seem to understand.
The obvious choice for a new advisor is a new faculty member with whom I've been working this past year and who I absolutely adore. And while working with her is a fully pleasant experience (she seems to approach life in a different manner than my advisor), I just don't think she would cut it for me as an advisor. I mean, like me, she has a young daughter, which means she isn't around very much, or at least not as much as some. Which means that when I'm in the middle of doing something and realize I don't know what I'm doing (which is always), she isn't there to help. Which means my experiments are often screwed and I end up wasting the afternoon away. The plus side is that she's always nice about it in the end, and she never goes off on tirades about how lazy and undisciplined I am. But the bottom line is that she doesn't work 24/7 and she's not a psychotic workaholic like my current advisor, which in this sick sort of way is what I seem to need.
Add to this the fact that there's this new graduate student wanting to start in my advisor's lab. All I can figure is that she wants to be with me, because her undergraduate degree is in a completely different subfield than my advisor's, and I really can't imagine that she was so charmed by my advisor that she just had to work with him. My advisor suggested that new student and I figure out a day when we can be in the lab at the same time this summer, which I would love, because aforementioned student seems very cool, much cooler than my advisor. At the same time, trying to work out a schedule with this new student has been ridiculously frustrating, because she has an infant son and she just isn't ready to leave him yet and blah blah blah.
Don't get me wrong, I understand, but I am also... annoyed. I understand that I am viewed as one of the Star Graduate Students, and therefore the poster child for 'You CAN have it all!' Thus my advisor's lab is view as The Kid Friendly Lab, which makes it a magnet for new graduate students with young children, or just children, or with just any semblance of a life whatsoever. And while I do want to be a mentor to anyone that I can be a mentor to (because mentors in our field are pathetically lacking), I don't have time to be a mentor because, hello, I'm also a mom. I don't really have the time to work around your pathetically limited schedule. And also, if you aren't ready to leave your kid yet, why in the F are you thinking about starting grad school?!
I guess life is all about balance. Maybe as a struggling graduate student with a young child, I need the rigor of a hellish advisor to keep me on track. I hate it, but I also realize that if I had a nicer advisor, it's quite possible that I would never finish, which I would also hate.
I've had the same sort of dilemma when it comes to religion. I am personally not religious, and neither is my spouse. Yet, we sort of want to rear our daughter religiously. We were both reared with religion--not really strict religion, but religion nonetheless. And while neither one of us has ever really believed in God, we do think that the fear of God has some redeeming qualities in a young child's mind.
To this day, I still fear the wrath of a God I don't believe in. And I fear that I'm going to burn in Hell for my hypocrisy. I don't want to teach my child about a God I don't belive in, but I want her to fear going to Hell to keep her from being bad. I don't want school to be my life and yet I want an advisor who is at school whenever I am, who answers my e-mails within five minutes, and who obsesses about my data as much as I do. I don't want an advisor who takes the afternoon off to be with her daughter, or a fellow graduate student who is never in the lab because her kid won't take a bottle and she can't leave him for more than a few hours at a time.
I understand these things more than anyone, and yet I can't tolerate them.
My only solace is that if I burn in Hell for all eternity for being a hypocrite, at least I have experience. Because my academic life right now is Hell, and there is absolutely no end in sight. permalink &ndash
Things have been bad in Academic Ella land, to the extent that I almost dropped out this semester. And I mean seriously. But I didn't, and the end result is that the stress of my particular situation caused me to lose 15 pounds in a month (and I'm not a large person to begin with, by any standard), stop menstruating, and develop an ovarian cyst that may require surgical removal of my ovary in my reproductive prime.
That's just great.
But yet, here I am, still.
So whilst suffering through the turmoil of this semester, I had to seek counsel from another faculty member. I really didn't want to, because I hate to come across as gossipy, but things were Bad, with a capital B. (I saw aforementioned faculty member a few weeks after our initial meeting and he asked me if things were going better. I replied, 'Do I look like things are going better?!' He said, 'Well, you don't look like you're packing, so that's better.' The scary thing is that he was only half kidding, I think.)
Packing aside, obviously one of his major suggestions to me was to find a new advisor. Which isn't as easy as it sounds, for reasons that I'm sure I don't have to explain to people here, but that other people outside of Academic Ella land (including my husband, to a certain extent) just don't seem to understand.
The obvious choice for a new advisor is a new faculty member with whom I've been working this past year and who I absolutely adore. And while working with her is a fully pleasant experience (she seems to approach life in a different manner than my advisor), I just don't think she would cut it for me as an advisor. I mean, like me, she has a young daughter, which means she isn't around very much, or at least not as much as some. Which means that when I'm in the middle of doing something and realize I don't know what I'm doing (which is always), she isn't there to help. Which means my experiments are often screwed and I end up wasting the afternoon away. The plus side is that she's always nice about it in the end, and she never goes off on tirades about how lazy and undisciplined I am. But the bottom line is that she doesn't work 24/7 and she's not a psychotic workaholic like my current advisor, which in this sick sort of way is what I seem to need.
Add to this the fact that there's this new graduate student wanting to start in my advisor's lab. All I can figure is that she wants to be with me, because her undergraduate degree is in a completely different subfield than my advisor's, and I really can't imagine that she was so charmed by my advisor that she just had to work with him. My advisor suggested that new student and I figure out a day when we can be in the lab at the same time this summer, which I would love, because aforementioned student seems very cool, much cooler than my advisor. At the same time, trying to work out a schedule with this new student has been ridiculously frustrating, because she has an infant son and she just isn't ready to leave him yet and blah blah blah.
Don't get me wrong, I understand, but I am also... annoyed. I understand that I am viewed as one of the Star Graduate Students, and therefore the poster child for 'You CAN have it all!' Thus my advisor's lab is view as The Kid Friendly Lab, which makes it a magnet for new graduate students with young children, or just children, or with just any semblance of a life whatsoever. And while I do want to be a mentor to anyone that I can be a mentor to (because mentors in our field are pathetically lacking), I don't have time to be a mentor because, hello, I'm also a mom. I don't really have the time to work around your pathetically limited schedule. And also, if you aren't ready to leave your kid yet, why in the F are you thinking about starting grad school?!
I guess life is all about balance. Maybe as a struggling graduate student with a young child, I need the rigor of a hellish advisor to keep me on track. I hate it, but I also realize that if I had a nicer advisor, it's quite possible that I would never finish, which I would also hate.
I've had the same sort of dilemma when it comes to religion. I am personally not religious, and neither is my spouse. Yet, we sort of want to rear our daughter religiously. We were both reared with religion--not really strict religion, but religion nonetheless. And while neither one of us has ever really believed in God, we do think that the fear of God has some redeeming qualities in a young child's mind.
To this day, I still fear the wrath of a God I don't believe in. And I fear that I'm going to burn in Hell for my hypocrisy. I don't want to teach my child about a God I don't belive in, but I want her to fear going to Hell to keep her from being bad. I don't want school to be my life and yet I want an advisor who is at school whenever I am, who answers my e-mails within five minutes, and who obsesses about my data as much as I do. I don't want an advisor who takes the afternoon off to be with her daughter, or a fellow graduate student who is never in the lab because her kid won't take a bottle and she can't leave him for more than a few hours at a time.
I understand these things more than anyone, and yet I can't tolerate them.
My only solace is that if I burn in Hell for all eternity for being a hypocrite, at least I have experience. Because my academic life right now is Hell, and there is absolutely no end in sight. permalink &ndash
Comments:
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i don't think you're a hypocrite, just complicated, and we all are. i feel so similar to you in your i want to have a life yet admire-need those who do not... its so complex...
--strawberries (my acct is not working)
--strawberries (my acct is not working)
# posted by 
: 5/21/2007 9:17 AM
: 5/21/2007 9:17 AM
I also don't think you're a hypocrite -- you're complicated, as strawberries said, and you're also very understandably looking out for yourself and trying to finish your degree!
I'm not a science person, so I don't really know what it's like to be in the middle of an experiment and need help at that moment in order to save the experiment, so you can take or leave any of my suggestions about the advisor thing. But I will say, I think it might be worth it for your sanity to have this nicer advisor. I wonder if she would treat you differently if you were officially her advisee? For example, maybe she'd be around a bit more? (She's new, right? Does she have people she's advising?) Or maybe she'd be willing to give you her home/cell number to use if you get screwed up in an experiment? You know, as long as you used it sparingly or something. Is there a way to work around HER schedule more, be in the lab when she's around and build your schedule on hers?
As for her motivating you/keeping you on track: is there some way you can get this motivational support from someone else instead? My advisors do not motivate me or keep me on a schedule either. I've just sort of learned I have to find that motivation elsewhere, and it's not going to come from within me (I do not do very well without a set schedule). So I do things like write up a schedule for myself that I then give to a friend or my fiance to check on me, or I tell as many people as possible that I'm going to do X by X date, so that I'll be embarrassed if it doesn't happen.
It just sounds like you really don't respond very well to the kind of "motivation" your current advisor gives, so maybe it would be worth it to take a little more time than you want to but to do it in a more pleasant way. If you do stay with the current advisor, you might have to start ignoring him when he says things about your laziness, etc. My friend has an advisor who has crazy expectations, and I just tell her to be sure to process what he says after each meeting so as not to start believing everything he says all at once and all at face value.
I'm not a science person, so I don't really know what it's like to be in the middle of an experiment and need help at that moment in order to save the experiment, so you can take or leave any of my suggestions about the advisor thing. But I will say, I think it might be worth it for your sanity to have this nicer advisor. I wonder if she would treat you differently if you were officially her advisee? For example, maybe she'd be around a bit more? (She's new, right? Does she have people she's advising?) Or maybe she'd be willing to give you her home/cell number to use if you get screwed up in an experiment? You know, as long as you used it sparingly or something. Is there a way to work around HER schedule more, be in the lab when she's around and build your schedule on hers?
As for her motivating you/keeping you on track: is there some way you can get this motivational support from someone else instead? My advisors do not motivate me or keep me on a schedule either. I've just sort of learned I have to find that motivation elsewhere, and it's not going to come from within me (I do not do very well without a set schedule). So I do things like write up a schedule for myself that I then give to a friend or my fiance to check on me, or I tell as many people as possible that I'm going to do X by X date, so that I'll be embarrassed if it doesn't happen.
It just sounds like you really don't respond very well to the kind of "motivation" your current advisor gives, so maybe it would be worth it to take a little more time than you want to but to do it in a more pleasant way. If you do stay with the current advisor, you might have to start ignoring him when he says things about your laziness, etc. My friend has an advisor who has crazy expectations, and I just tell her to be sure to process what he says after each meeting so as not to start believing everything he says all at once and all at face value.
On the topic of raising your child to believe in a god that you don't believe in - how about teaching your child to think critically and make religious decisions on her/his own? For a great book on this and relevant topics I highly recommend Dawkins book "The God Delusion"
# posted by : 5/21/2007 5:35 PM
: 5/21/2007 5:35 PM
Also on the 'god' line...if you want a good, open minded church experience, try a Unitarian Universalist congregation.
# posted by : 5/22/2007 12:32 AM
: 5/22/2007 12:32 AM
God the Father the true Daddy loves you.
Jesus died for your forgiveness
and best of all THE HOLY SPIRIT HELPS YOU BELIEVE AND FOLLOW AND OBEY.
I totally utterly believe and stake my life on God loving Academics, God wanting to build His Kingdom in Academia and His love for the whole intellectual enterprise.
Every Blessing and love on you.
I have the Dawkins book too but I want to find out how the Church is letting Academia down and I know it is being reflected in the Journals and I am NOT in any way in the Academy.(!!!!!)
LORD make this one I meet in Heaven first Heaven one!!! Thank you Jesus alive through all the Death (in many forms agggh) Jesusxxxx(((Jesus)))
Jesus died for your forgiveness
and best of all THE HOLY SPIRIT HELPS YOU BELIEVE AND FOLLOW AND OBEY.
I totally utterly believe and stake my life on God loving Academics, God wanting to build His Kingdom in Academia and His love for the whole intellectual enterprise.
Every Blessing and love on you.
I have the Dawkins book too but I want to find out how the Church is letting Academia down and I know it is being reflected in the Journals and I am NOT in any way in the Academy.(!!!!!)
LORD make this one I meet in Heaven first Heaven one!!! Thank you Jesus alive through all the Death (in many forms agggh) Jesusxxxx(((Jesus)))
# posted by : 5/24/2007 1:41 AM
: 5/24/2007 1:41 AM
I don't get it. The line about how you can't be a mentor, because you're a mother? I get that you don't have time right now. I don't get why it's okay for you to be in grad school if that's really what you think. Do you think you'll never have time to be a mentor? Or do you assume that your kid(s) will be older by the time you're a PI, and then it will all be manageable?
Obviously you've thought about this some, since you're aware of the hypocrisy of the problem that this busy female PI with a family is probably exactly the right advisor for you.
But try thinking of it this way: you're committing the most egregious crime against any woman scientist anywhere: holding her to unrealistic standards you don't apply to any males.
Now, go get a clue, and stop expecting any PI to hand-hold you through protocols. That's not her job, and you should know that by now unless you just started grad school yesterday. If you can't put in the time to figure it out the hard way, you're not going to make it in science. If you can't get independent right quick, you never will, no matter who your advisor is.
Obviously you've thought about this some, since you're aware of the hypocrisy of the problem that this busy female PI with a family is probably exactly the right advisor for you.
But try thinking of it this way: you're committing the most egregious crime against any woman scientist anywhere: holding her to unrealistic standards you don't apply to any males.
Now, go get a clue, and stop expecting any PI to hand-hold you through protocols. That's not her job, and you should know that by now unless you just started grad school yesterday. If you can't put in the time to figure it out the hard way, you're not going to make it in science. If you can't get independent right quick, you never will, no matter who your advisor is.
Do you think you'll never have time to be a mentor? Or do you assume that your kid(s) will be older by the time you're a PI, and then it will all be manageable?
If you can't put in the time to figure it out the hard way, you're not going to make it in science.
I have bent over backwards to try to make my schedule correspond with the new grad student's schedule so that I can be in the lab at the same time as she is, which is hard when she's only willing to put in three or four hours a week and is not flexible at all. Why is it my problem and not hers? I consider it my problem if I can't be in the lab at the same time as my advisor because he is the one doing the favor. In this situation, I'm the one doing the favor.
I don't expect to 'make it' in science to any degree that people here would find acceptable, but thanks for pointing that out to me anyway. I don't expect to ever be a PI because that isn't what I want to do. But for the record, yes, I do think that it gets easier when your kids get older; in fact, it is already easier for me now than it was a year ago. Eventually they start going to school and by the time you're a PI you actually get paid for your time, so you can afford childcare.
So here's my final secret, because I really think I need to stop posting here. I don't even want to get a Ph.D. anymore, but I do want to finish my Master's because I have put way too much work into going back to school to not have something to show for it. Plus I really enjoy teaching, which I can do with a Master's. I don't have any delusions of getting a Ph.D. or a tenure-track position or becoming a PI or whatever, but I don't think that makes my grad school experience any less legitimate. However, people here seem to have one-track minds, and I'm starting to feel a little out of place.
Goodbye.
If you can't put in the time to figure it out the hard way, you're not going to make it in science.
I have bent over backwards to try to make my schedule correspond with the new grad student's schedule so that I can be in the lab at the same time as she is, which is hard when she's only willing to put in three or four hours a week and is not flexible at all. Why is it my problem and not hers? I consider it my problem if I can't be in the lab at the same time as my advisor because he is the one doing the favor. In this situation, I'm the one doing the favor.
I don't expect to 'make it' in science to any degree that people here would find acceptable, but thanks for pointing that out to me anyway. I don't expect to ever be a PI because that isn't what I want to do. But for the record, yes, I do think that it gets easier when your kids get older; in fact, it is already easier for me now than it was a year ago. Eventually they start going to school and by the time you're a PI you actually get paid for your time, so you can afford childcare.
So here's my final secret, because I really think I need to stop posting here. I don't even want to get a Ph.D. anymore, but I do want to finish my Master's because I have put way too much work into going back to school to not have something to show for it. Plus I really enjoy teaching, which I can do with a Master's. I don't have any delusions of getting a Ph.D. or a tenure-track position or becoming a PI or whatever, but I don't think that makes my grad school experience any less legitimate. However, people here seem to have one-track minds, and I'm starting to feel a little out of place.
Goodbye.
P.S. Also, I think you misunderstood. When I said 'I'm also a mom' I meant that like her, I'm a mom, too. She doesn't have time to be in the lab because she can't leave her kid, but I'm supposed to make sure I'm there whenever she can be?
I wanted to make sure to take the time to respond to the other comments left here.
Thanks Strawberries and Poppy. Poppy--I do agree that things might be different with the nicer advisor if I were officially her advisee. She may not be around much because she doesn't have any advisees yet and therefore maybe has no reason to be around a lot. I just don't know if I'd have the heart to start over. The project is completely different from what I currently do, and I am a slow learner to begin with. I'm also not really sure the nice advisor wants me, because of how it might affect her relationship with my current advisor. I can't really tell.
I agree that in a way I don't respond well to negativity, but in a way I kind of do, so it's tricky. However, we've talked through some of our issues, and he has actually responded pretty well, so I am going to grin and bear it this summer and then go from there. (My friends say I have battered woman's syndrome.)
To the first two anonymous posters, re. religion: I do intend to teach my child to think critically about religion. It's just that sometimes I think religion works best when it lays out a rigid set of rules, and while you don't totally obey them, they still set some basic moral guidelines for you. I don't know if 'anything goes' religions like Unitarianism do that. Sorry if that doesn't make sense--maybe I can try to explain it better.
And finally, for the record, I have rejected many male advisors for the same reason that I rejected the nice advisor: not being accessible enough. However, since the topic of my post was hypocrisy, I didn't find it pertinent to mention this. The reason the male advisors I rejected aren't around that much isn't because they have young children, but if it were, I would not want them, either. Likewise, if the nice advisor weren't around much just because she didn't feel like it (like some of her male counterparts), I also wouldn't want her. I seem to need an advisor who is around a lot, and this applies to both males and females. If I'm too needy, then so be it, but my advisor has never told me this, and he doesn't seem to have any problem pointing out my deficiencies to me, so I'm sure that he would have told me that by now if it were true. So while I agree there are some gender issues here (mainly because the main burden of child rearing usually falls on the woman), I don't think it's fair to say I hold men and women to different standards. If we were talking about a nice advisor who was a single dad and a mean advisor who was a bachelorette workaholic, I'd be having the same dilemma.
That is all.
Thanks Strawberries and Poppy. Poppy--I do agree that things might be different with the nicer advisor if I were officially her advisee. She may not be around much because she doesn't have any advisees yet and therefore maybe has no reason to be around a lot. I just don't know if I'd have the heart to start over. The project is completely different from what I currently do, and I am a slow learner to begin with. I'm also not really sure the nice advisor wants me, because of how it might affect her relationship with my current advisor. I can't really tell.
I agree that in a way I don't respond well to negativity, but in a way I kind of do, so it's tricky. However, we've talked through some of our issues, and he has actually responded pretty well, so I am going to grin and bear it this summer and then go from there. (My friends say I have battered woman's syndrome.)
To the first two anonymous posters, re. religion: I do intend to teach my child to think critically about religion. It's just that sometimes I think religion works best when it lays out a rigid set of rules, and while you don't totally obey them, they still set some basic moral guidelines for you. I don't know if 'anything goes' religions like Unitarianism do that. Sorry if that doesn't make sense--maybe I can try to explain it better.
And finally, for the record, I have rejected many male advisors for the same reason that I rejected the nice advisor: not being accessible enough. However, since the topic of my post was hypocrisy, I didn't find it pertinent to mention this. The reason the male advisors I rejected aren't around that much isn't because they have young children, but if it were, I would not want them, either. Likewise, if the nice advisor weren't around much just because she didn't feel like it (like some of her male counterparts), I also wouldn't want her. I seem to need an advisor who is around a lot, and this applies to both males and females. If I'm too needy, then so be it, but my advisor has never told me this, and he doesn't seem to have any problem pointing out my deficiencies to me, so I'm sure that he would have told me that by now if it were true. So while I agree there are some gender issues here (mainly because the main burden of child rearing usually falls on the woman), I don't think it's fair to say I hold men and women to different standards. If we were talking about a nice advisor who was a single dad and a mean advisor who was a bachelorette workaholic, I'd be having the same dilemma.
That is all.
in many ways, children demand more attention as they get older. not less. it's a different kind of attention and it requires a different kind of energy but i think it's a complete error to assume that you can wait it out until they get older and it will all be easier.
just thought I'd say. especially since I have a newborn and a three year old and I can't work because of the three year old. not the newborn. What the hell, she sleeps 20 hours a day.
anyway. it did occur to me that you might should evaluate what you really need and think through how else you might motivate yourself but someone already said and you already replied. So whatever.
last thing, i agree with you about the value of strict guidelines in religion, even if you don't follow them. at least, what you said really did make sense to me.
just thought I'd say. especially since I have a newborn and a three year old and I can't work because of the three year old. not the newborn. What the hell, she sleeps 20 hours a day.
anyway. it did occur to me that you might should evaluate what you really need and think through how else you might motivate yourself but someone already said and you already replied. So whatever.
last thing, i agree with you about the value of strict guidelines in religion, even if you don't follow them. at least, what you said really did make sense to me.
i think it's a complete error to assume that you can wait it out until they get older and it will all be easier.
I think my main point is that when kids are older, they are expected to go to school, and the time that you will have when they are in school is a given. People do not frown upon kids going to school 20-30 hours a week, but the same cannot be said about daycare.
Kids of all ages require lots of time and energy, obviously.
I'm not 'waiting it out'--I'm grinding through it. However, I do fully expect things to get easier when I'm finished with my course work (which will free up many hours a week), finished taking qualifying exams, finished with my thesis, etc., etc. Yes, I know, those things can be replaced with writing grants and teaching and serving on committees and whatnot, but honestly, I have never had anyone tell me 'Oh grad school was the easiest time of my life and things just got harder from there!'
I think my main point is that when kids are older, they are expected to go to school, and the time that you will have when they are in school is a given. People do not frown upon kids going to school 20-30 hours a week, but the same cannot be said about daycare.
Kids of all ages require lots of time and energy, obviously.
I'm not 'waiting it out'--I'm grinding through it. However, I do fully expect things to get easier when I'm finished with my course work (which will free up many hours a week), finished taking qualifying exams, finished with my thesis, etc., etc. Yes, I know, those things can be replaced with writing grants and teaching and serving on committees and whatnot, but honestly, I have never had anyone tell me 'Oh grad school was the easiest time of my life and things just got harder from there!'
I guess for me graduate school was, in so many ways, easier than being a faculty member (at least a first-year faculty member).
That said, having my son before I started graduate school was the best thing that I ever did. He started first grade when I started my job last year and now that we're both "in school" our schedules and lives are much more similar than they were before. It's not any easier when he's sick and I'm still staying up to work at night to get it all in, not to mention going in one weekend day a week - so timewise it's all still a crunch, but schematically it's all much smoother now that he's older.
That said, having my son before I started graduate school was the best thing that I ever did. He started first grade when I started my job last year and now that we're both "in school" our schedules and lives are much more similar than they were before. It's not any easier when he's sick and I'm still staying up to work at night to get it all in, not to mention going in one weekend day a week - so timewise it's all still a crunch, but schematically it's all much smoother now that he's older.
I am sorry to read that you don't believe in god yet you want your daughter to fear going to hell so she will behave well. You need to have more confidence in human nature. God and religion are not the only things that make humans act in a civil manner, which you should know first hand if you don't believe in god yourself. I do understand, however, that if you were raised with a strict religion, you may attribute some of your own beliefs to that. As one who has always been an atheist, I can confirm that you can raise your daughter to be extremely ethical and caring without needing religion. In fact, there's a new book out on just that, which I just started reading myself. It's called Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion. Please, please consider that you do not need to teach your daughter about god for her to be a moral and ethical child.
On another note, having just read your post from nearly a year ago where you said you were vying for laziest grad student on academic secret, and in this one you say you are seen as star student and poster child for having a family and doing research, it sounds like you managed the career part just fine. ;-)
On another note, having just read your post from nearly a year ago where you said you were vying for laziest grad student on academic secret, and in this one you say you are seen as star student and poster child for having a family and doing research, it sounds like you managed the career part just fine. ;-)
...it sounds like you managed the career part just fine. ;-)
Well, not really--I did get lucky with some research I was doing this semester, though (unfortunately, not my resesarch with my advisor--go figure). But thanks. ;-)
Thanks also for the book reference. I certainly didn't mean to imply that one must be religious in order to be moral and ethical; in fact, that is about the opposite of what I believe. I just think that the concept of 'God' to a young child may have some value because the idea of a higher power explains concepts they might not otherwise be able to wrap their minds around (like the idea of there being a 'greater good'). Plus rules mandated by 'God' seems to carry more weight than rules mandated by Mom and Dad.
All that said, I think the chances of us raising our child religiously are realistically slim to none.
Well, not really--I did get lucky with some research I was doing this semester, though (unfortunately, not my resesarch with my advisor--go figure). But thanks. ;-)
Thanks also for the book reference. I certainly didn't mean to imply that one must be religious in order to be moral and ethical; in fact, that is about the opposite of what I believe. I just think that the concept of 'God' to a young child may have some value because the idea of a higher power explains concepts they might not otherwise be able to wrap their minds around (like the idea of there being a 'greater good'). Plus rules mandated by 'God' seems to carry more weight than rules mandated by Mom and Dad.
All that said, I think the chances of us raising our child religiously are realistically slim to none.
I cannot believe the negativity this post generated! Poor salmon ella! You're just trying to juggle being a mom and a scientist and making sure you have time to be fully present and do a good job in whatever role you're in. It is very hard and very complex, and you have every right to be frustrated with someone who wants to use her child (it sounds like) to make you bend to her schedule. You also are not a hypocrite for wanting to make sure that your advisor is actually around for you.
My advisor has not been there for me, and I've adjusted to that pretty well because I am comfortable working on my current project alone. But sometimes I do wish that I had someone who was more attentive. And there is nothing wrong with wanting that--after all, you are a STUDENT of this person.
Guidance is not hand-holding. I agree that there has to be a balance of independence and guidance, but as an instructor myself, if I were as lazy about my students as most of the faculty I know, I don't think I'd want to be in the academy at all. Sometimes I just don't think PhD students matter very much to full-time faculty, when we are the ones who are supporting their own research by the tuition we pay and the low-level classes we teach. I have resented paying tuition every semester since I started my dissertation, because, as far as I can see, I am teaching MYSELF how to do this. At least at the end, I will have the degree, which is worth something, but I think the mentoring system at most American Universities is woefully inadequate all around, and comments such as Ms. Phd's just make me want to spit nails!!!! Are you that far removed from your PhD experience that you cannot remember what it was like in this stage????
What academia needs is more people like ella here, people who are willing to question the establishment, the tradition, and themselves. Those are the people I respect in academia, the people who do work every bit as hard as the rest of the university (and often harder), but who are willing to stop and think critically about the process.
Besides, I thought this blog was devoted to deconstructing academia, not upholding the accepted status quo . . .
My advisor has not been there for me, and I've adjusted to that pretty well because I am comfortable working on my current project alone. But sometimes I do wish that I had someone who was more attentive. And there is nothing wrong with wanting that--after all, you are a STUDENT of this person.
Guidance is not hand-holding. I agree that there has to be a balance of independence and guidance, but as an instructor myself, if I were as lazy about my students as most of the faculty I know, I don't think I'd want to be in the academy at all. Sometimes I just don't think PhD students matter very much to full-time faculty, when we are the ones who are supporting their own research by the tuition we pay and the low-level classes we teach. I have resented paying tuition every semester since I started my dissertation, because, as far as I can see, I am teaching MYSELF how to do this. At least at the end, I will have the degree, which is worth something, but I think the mentoring system at most American Universities is woefully inadequate all around, and comments such as Ms. Phd's just make me want to spit nails!!!! Are you that far removed from your PhD experience that you cannot remember what it was like in this stage????
What academia needs is more people like ella here, people who are willing to question the establishment, the tradition, and themselves. Those are the people I respect in academia, the people who do work every bit as hard as the rest of the university (and often harder), but who are willing to stop and think critically about the process.
Besides, I thought this blog was devoted to deconstructing academia, not upholding the accepted status quo . . .
# posted by : 6/22/2007 3:35 AM
: 6/22/2007 3:35 AM
To the anonymous poster above: thank you.
Since that last post, I've sworn off posting here, but yet I keep coming back to see the comments through until the end (I'm a glutton for punishment, I guess). I'm usually sorry immediately after I click on the 'whispers' button, but your 'whisper' was a pleasant surprise.
Since that last post, I've sworn off posting here, but yet I keep coming back to see the comments through until the end (I'm a glutton for punishment, I guess). I'm usually sorry immediately after I click on the 'whispers' button, but your 'whisper' was a pleasant surprise.
Salmon, first, I'm sorry to hear about all these difficulties. I agree that it is _very_ hard to juggle one's feminist ideals and realistic expectations on one's everydays.
I agree that you should get your Master's even if you won't get a PhD, because you truly have put a ton of work into it and yes, it would be great to have something to show for it on paper.
I also agree that switching to the new person as an advisor may be tricky. And as someone else already commented, you may be putting her in a very difficult situation with respect to your advisor who is presumably a senior person and will be voting on her tenure case.
That said, there's no reason you can't approach her for advice.
Regarding raising your child with a god especially if you're not a believer yourself, I hope you don't! That definitely does seem hypocritical and as Flicka Mawa noted, it is absolutely not a necessity for raising a moral child.
In fact, I would go as far as to argue that it could have very negative repercussions. I mean, do you really want your child to live in fear or things she won't understand anyway? That seems like a cruel approach. I think you should have trust in you and your husband to know that you can pass on important lessons without that dishonest approach (I call it dishonest, because if you don't believe in a god then how can you preach its existence to your child?).
Finally, I hope you don't leave a.secret, that would be really sad!
I agree that you should get your Master's even if you won't get a PhD, because you truly have put a ton of work into it and yes, it would be great to have something to show for it on paper.
I also agree that switching to the new person as an advisor may be tricky. And as someone else already commented, you may be putting her in a very difficult situation with respect to your advisor who is presumably a senior person and will be voting on her tenure case.
That said, there's no reason you can't approach her for advice.
Regarding raising your child with a god especially if you're not a believer yourself, I hope you don't! That definitely does seem hypocritical and as Flicka Mawa noted, it is absolutely not a necessity for raising a moral child.
In fact, I would go as far as to argue that it could have very negative repercussions. I mean, do you really want your child to live in fear or things she won't understand anyway? That seems like a cruel approach. I think you should have trust in you and your husband to know that you can pass on important lessons without that dishonest approach (I call it dishonest, because if you don't believe in a god then how can you preach its existence to your child?).
Finally, I hope you don't leave a.secret, that would be really sad!
Pretty Hobbesian view of humyn nature, at least during childhood, but you're the parents so I guess it's your prerogative. Is outing yourself to your child(ren) at some point part of the game plan? In my experience, coming to age has too many 'I've been lied to' moments as it is, but perhaps the scholarly mind finds such discoveries informative and rewarding. I was (thank God!) raised secular. First time (age 8) I heard the invocation of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I mis-heard it as Holy Experiment.
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